Curse

Energizer Deth Buni · Aug 29, 2006, 04:52 AM // 04:52

I ve been thinking about this lately after seeing all the different rants and complaints etc... The Devs, Alex, and Gaile respond here often to many different posts. Never seen Gaile show up in game but I understand it happens at times. Do we know the names of WOW, EQ, Asherons or any other Devs by first names? If we bought any of the other games would we demand changes with the same intensity? I imagine with other games, some "big brother" hands down changes take it or leave it. If we dont like those changes, is it just a large beaucracy that we think we have to go through to complain? I guess the real question is are we assuming that our thoughts and inputs have more power to make changes in this game more than the would another game? If Devs and other descion makers are so personable (which is not a bad thing), it seems that it would increase the political enviornment of the game. As opposed to an untouchable game regulating machine such as WOW or EQ that just handed down changes.

"What have you done for me lately, Alex??!!" (just kidding)

Knightsaber Sith · Aug 29, 2006, 05:16 AM // 05:16

Gaile, Alex, and Jeff aren't devs.... they're the community relations reps. Unlike those other games you rattled off GW listens to the critiques and suggestions of players and tries to answer any big questions that come up.

Energizer Deth Buni · Aug 29, 2006, 05:21 AM // 05:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knightsaber Sith

Gaile, Alex, and Jeff aren't devs.... they're the community relations reps. Unlike those other games you rattled off GW listens to the critiques and suggestions of players and tries to answer any big questions that come up.

Yes but do you think we (as a collective gaming community?) expect more and ask too much of this game, than we would any other game?

milias · Aug 29, 2006, 05:23 AM // 05:23

It's true that Gaile and Andrew are part of Community Relations; however, they do have access to the development team, and regularly relay to them information they glean from fansites. Hence, in this respect, they do hold considerable sway over how the game is shaped.

Knightsaber Sith · Aug 29, 2006, 05:23 AM // 05:23

Well, we have gotten into the habit of asking for things cause they ask us want we want and what we like. This does also give rise to lots of whiners that don't get exactly what they want where as in some other games they never ask what you want and you gladly take whatever they give you.

Numa Pompilius · Aug 29, 2006, 08:31 AM // 08:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Energizer Deth Buni

Yes but do you think we (as a collective gaming community?) expect more and ask too much of this game, than we would any other game?

I know so.
In other games I've reported bugs, sometimes game-killing bugs. Usually my mails just disappear without a trace, and the bugs may or may not ever get fixed.
When I've mailed ANet about bugs I get an automated response that someone is looking in to it, and in all cases except one (when I had a brainfart while reading a skill description... urgh, not my finest moment) the issue has been fixed within a week or two.

That said I don't know how much of the bitching is actually serious, and how much is just people trying to goad ANet into implementing their pet ideas. I mean, everyone knows that ANet does read fora like these, and does implement a lot of the ideas/fix a lot of the complaints which surface here.
And naturally ANet is more likely to listen to *your* complaint, rather than the other whiners, the more aggressively you complain...

That's the downside of ANet actually listening to the community, I guess.

llsektorll · Aug 29, 2006, 08:38 AM // 08:38

it allows for more user to dev interaction making the game a bit more personal... in that way the players can have their voices heard and see updates that the people want... like your "observation" mode ^_^

RTSFirebat · Aug 29, 2006, 09:07 AM // 09:07

I don't think its too personable at all.

A.net has some of the best devs in the gaming market.

I for one perfer devs that repond on a first name basis and can be found on forums and ingame at different times.

Take Planetside for example. Devs hardly ever post on the forum, and if the do it often false hopes and promises. A lot of the what they say is never true and the game is riddled with bugs of all sorts.

So I'm please that things are much better in this game.

lyra_song · Aug 29, 2006, 01:25 PM // 13:25

Ugh Planetside...i had SOOOO much hope for that game in the previews...then it just crapped out... -.o
*cough*

Anyway...i think being on a first name basis with SOME of the Anet staff is great, i dont know any other game that does it like this.

I personally love it.

However......

You have to remember, even though we know them by first names, this is still a business and they will use business speak on you.

Words like "soon", "we're working on it", "in due time", and "as soon as we can" are NORMAL in the world of business.

Its part of the bullshit of business, and its just how we communicate. We speak one thing and we dont mean it...but the guy reading it knows that its bullshit and they understand it as bullshit. I work in a small business and we are a supplied to wholesale vendors. We basically translate the bullshit that the factory gives us, into bullshit that our customers can understand, so they in turn can bullshit their customers.

"We're working on it" = Its sitting here, and we'll get to it when all the other stuff is done, because even though you're important, we're backed up with work.

"Soon" = When we get to it after we get through all the other stuff we promised other customers.

"Waiting on word" = Passing the blame to someone else who's slow, whos bullshitting us too.

Vilaptca · Aug 29, 2006, 05:03 PM // 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Energizer Deth Buni

Yes but do you think we (as a collective gaming community?) expect more and ask too much of this game, than we would any other game?

Yes, just read all of Sardelac, half of Riverside, and most of Nightfall. We're taking this whole "ask and you shall receive" type thing way too far. We complain like crazy when something is added we didn't ask for. We complain even more when they don't implement the new feature EXACTLY how we wanted it from a thread in Sardelac.

And we're never very nice about any of it. The only time they really seem to receive any praise rather than need/want lists, is when they throw special events. Not these weekend event, everyones had some sort of gripe with them for various reasons, but like Wintersday. The "fun" events where we get everything for free.

2ndName · Aug 29, 2006, 05:12 PM // 17:12

Yeah, GW is great for the fact that they actually listen and make changes where it is needed. Good job team ANET, I will purchase all of your upcoming GW stuff.

inscribed · Aug 29, 2006, 05:36 PM // 17:36

Gaile and them going by their first names on the boards and in game is just part of their job. They have to seem like they are part of the community in order to relate to it. It's not that any of them are inherently 'personable', it's just a means to an end.

Sure, Gaile responds to plenty of posts, but she only responds to posts she knows she can put a postive spin on, and more often than not, its filled with very little concrete information. Again, its just another part of the job... only enter battles you know you can win.

In short, don't paint these guys like they are 'doing it for the game'. ArenaNet just has a more unique approach to customer relations: pay a couple people to go onto fansites and act friendly.

Omega X · Aug 29, 2006, 06:13 PM // 18:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knightsaber Sith

Gaile, Alex, and Jeff aren't devs.... they're the community relations reps. Unlike those other games you rattled off GW listens to the critiques and suggestions of players and tries to answer any big questions that come up.

---Clarification---

Executive Producers:
Jeff Strain

Programmers:
Jeff Strain

ArenaNET CoCreator:
Jeff Strain

Media PR:
Jeff Strain

------------------------------

Community:
Gaile Gray

Community NC Europe:
Gaile Gray
Alex Weekes

Web And Visual Design:
Andrew Patrick

--------------------------

UNLIKE Gaile, ALEX and Andrew, Jeff IS A DEV, Co Creator, and Media PR.

Mordakai · Aug 29, 2006, 06:24 PM // 18:24

While I agree some in the community could treat people better, i think most people do respect Gaile, Alex, Jeff, etc. (look at me, throwing around first names like I know these people!)

Let's ask the question the other way: How many fan bases do you know buy gifts for the company they're buying games from, like many did on the Guild Wars anniversary!

I think it goes both ways, and Anet is smart enough to weed out the crazy talk from actual real complaints / praise.

(ex of crazy: "Oh noes! Another Chapter! Please stop making new Chapters, Anet!")

Malice Black · Aug 29, 2006, 08:46 PM // 20:46

a company should always interact on some level with its customers.

EternalTempest · Aug 29, 2006, 08:49 PM // 20:49

I strongly feel each community has it's own culture / feel and since they visit multiple boards, suggestions in one unless it sounds killer may not get transmitted unless there getting similar idea also in the other boards.

Gaile, Alex, Patrick have been great so far and they do have a tough job but part of there job is "screen" out OMG you changed Ele with AOE you suck or can I have the moon in the sky requests as well.

This is not to sound against Guru, but Guru is not the *single* influence with Anet. It is one that does get noticed and out of the original "elite" website, it was one of two that kept there ranks while all others were downgraded.

Lots of changes were NOT asked and with changes I still feel the dev's have a strong vision of GW that is infulenced by the fans but the dev's (to me anyway) keep it in line with there vision. I do feel that there is a healthy dev vision mixed with player response feedback.

Look at the suggestion they did not implement that people complain. Anet came out with a vision of the game that did not exist.

Look at examples of things shot down from the dev's that ideas from players that from Traditional MMMOPRH (grind games), or people that didn't want to be bothered with the other 1/2.

UAS Universal Unlock
More then 8 skills
Removal of the Level cap
Seperate PvP / PvE
Fow/UW un-linking to HoH
Any "balance" changes to make the game challenging but fair. (Skill > Grind)

All of things go against the dev's design yet had a Ton of people are/were very vocal on it.

Mr_T_bot · Aug 29, 2006, 09:39 PM // 21:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Energizer Deth Buni

Do we know the names of WOW, EQ, Asherons or any other Devs by first names?

Ragnarok Online's Christy.

Terra Xin · Aug 29, 2006, 11:38 PM // 23:38

Jeff is Co-Founder, Co-Creator sounds too weird...

At least with Anet, we know where Sh... comes from, which (believe me) is a good thing, because then we can help clean it up... unline some games.

Seef II · Aug 30, 2006, 12:03 AM // 00:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_T_bot

Ragnarok Online's Christy.

She still around? I actually met her ingame once.

Contact with the devs is something I'd expect in an electronic medium like this. Really, there are no excuses in this age.